[Dragaera] (no spoilers) The 17 [Great Weapons]

[Kenneth Gorelick]

On Aug 11, 2006, at 11:12 PM, Jon Lincicum wrote:

> tom sausman wrote:
>>> Do you understand the concept of fate?
>>
>>          Truth be told,no or very vaguely. I just cannot believe in
>> something so "common" so to speak. Such as, I buy a hotdog, I dropped
>> it, who's to say it was fate that I won't eat that hotdog because  
>> that
>> vendor was prick or it wasn't  that I just trip while looking at that
>> 20 something down the street?
> Let me see if I can explain.
>
> Fate encompasses the idea that who and what you are will dictate, to a
> degree, the actions that you take in life. At some certain,  
> fundamental
> level, you are incapable of acting against the essence of what you are
> at your very core. Does this negate the concept of "free will"?
> Certainly not. But again, at that fundamental level, who you are helps
> to determine what your so-called "free will" will cause you to  
> choose to
> do and to be. To this extent, you are at the mercy of your own  
> fate--and
> you have no one to blame for it but yourself.

I don't see how you can have "fate" without predestination, except  
retrospectively, as in, "that was his fate", or as a threat, "if you  
keep on doing that, you will suffer the consequences." Frankly, if  
there were such a thing as predestination, we could all go home now.


>>> That the essence of the universe could drive people into an
>>> inescapable destiny?
>>
>>              In truth I can't gasp the thought "essence" of anything,
>> inescapable destiny, how I believe in the Charlas Douwin Theory,  
>> and I
>> believe I spelled Douwin wrong, anybody?
> Darwin talked about genetic evolution. Of the nature of plants and
> animals to evolve, within their natures, to suit their environments.
> This is not contrary to the concept of fate--far from it. In fact, it
> might be considered a form of fate in and of itself. Evolution  
> means you
> are adapting in the way that allows you to survive. Or not  
> surviving. In
> this way, you may be fated to become extinct.

Evolution is not fate, nor fate evolution. They are unrelated  
concepts. Evolution is genetic selection and mutation. Fate is  
predestination.

>
>>> Do you subscribe to a creation god or goddess? Do you believe in an
>>> atheistic "accidental" creation of the universe? Do chance, caprice,
>>> karma, or intellect drive your life?
>>>
>>> Am I talking to myself, here?
>>
>>     I may not understand the point of the first question but isn't  
>> the
>> Earth an 'atheistis "accidental"
> Well, that was my question. If you believe that to be true, then at
> least I know where you stand on the subject. I don't necessarily
> disagree with you on this, but I like to keep myself open to other
> possibilities, since there's really no hard evidence, one way or  
> the other.

Agnosticism is the only position a rational being can take. Atheism  
or religion both require belief in the unprovable. Even the "gods" of  
Dragaera did not create the universe; rather, they came into  
existence as a result of the Jenoine, who themselves came from  
something or somewhere else.

>>
>>> "Who put it there?" is like saying "Who put the universe there?"
>>
>>           Isn't the Cycle a materialized object and not organic?
>> Evoultion cannot bring a bridge, it however creat "man" and man and
>> construt a bridge. Erosion ( I know I'd spelled that wrong) can make
>> mountains or the continental plates can, but neither and build a
>> skyscaper.
> Well, this is where metaphor meets reality. Certainly, Dragaerans
> believe that the cycle is a great wheel that sits in the Paths of the
> Dead, near the Halls of Judgment. (And certainly, there is such a
> wheel.) But then, the Halls and the Paths are both ethereal, dreamlike
> places where physical objects can take on meanings much greater  
> than in
> the ":real" world.


>>> Why would one man (say, Vlad) struggle against his own destiny?
>>           To change it but if it was Fate than than is he unable to
>> change it, I was refering to shame the Jenoine were exiled from a
>> place of their choosen and by their "slaves"
> Can a man fight against his very nature? Perhaps, but only poorly. Can
> the Jenoine fight their own nature? Equally doubtful.

What is Vlad's nature? Is he an assassin? Certainly his goddess  
believes so. Yet, we can see that he has moved far from his roots in  
that regard.

>>> Four, IIRC, and they're the only Jenoine we've seen
>>
>>         There were four Jenoine at once in Issola? If you counted the
>> ones from the Romances and Taltos with yours... what six all  
>> together.
> Read the scene where Vlad, Verra, Aliera, Teldra, and Morrolan face  
> off
> against the Jenoine in their "place" (Chapter 12, pages 179-184,  
> paperback.)
>
> It is "five of us against four of them", as Vlad puts it.
>
> I do not believe there were any Jenoine present during /Taltos/.
>
>>> If you need to swat a fly, does it concern you if you only have four
>>> nuclear bombs to use, and not ten thousand of them?
>>      Would be so kind as to elaborate on that analogy, the fly being
>> the lot of the gods including  the poeple with the GW? The nuclear is
>> kind of extreme to me because yes the Jenoine are powerful BUT a
>> Easterner killed one, I believe thats saying  a nuclear might  be   
>> not
>> worth the effort but a frog can kill one? Sorry I just confused
> An Easterner armed with a *Great Weapon* killed a Jenoine. If the
> Jenoine are nuclear weapons in this analogy, then a Great Weapon in  
> the
> Death Star. If a fly lands on the "fire" button on the Death star, a
> whole planet full of nuclear weapons might just vanish in a very  
> pretty
> Hollywood special effect.
>
> Majikjon
>
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