[Dragaera] Current Financial Mess

[Maximilian Wilson]

On Sun, Oct 5, 2008 at 12:37 PM, Frank Mayhar <frank at exit.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-10-05 at 12:32 -0700, Maximilian Wilson wrote:
>> Progressives hate Bush even though in many ways his agenda was a
>> liberal one (nation-building, easy credit, entitlement programs). Thus
>> we see that American politics is as much about tribal dominance as
>> substance.
>
> Speaking as, more or less, a "progressive," I loathe the Bush crew
> because of their social conservatism, dishonesty and fiscal
> irresponsibility, among other things.  There are plenty of good reasons
> for a progressive to dislike Bush and his bunch and it's not really
> about "tribal dominance" at all, as far as I can see.

Yes, there are good and sensible reasons for progressives to dislike
Bush. (You put "progressive" in scare quotes. Is there another term
you would prefer?) For example, the "us against them" mentality Bush
brought to science funding, which functioned as an "anti-science" bias
in practice from what I can tell. On the other hand, progressive
opposition to our Iraq presence is bizarre. The conservative approach
to Iraq would have been to look at the reports on Hussein's WMDs,
invade and topple his government, and leave. Somebody will set up a
dictatorship, but "we are the friends of liberty evereywhere, and
guardians only of our own." Note that if we'd done that Iraq still be
seen as a victory. The messy part of Iraq was when we decided to try
to stick around to try to build a friendly, democratic nation in the
Middle-East in the hopes of catalyzing a democratic revolution,
because "democracies don't war with each other." That's a liberal
approach to foreign policy, hoping to change human nature for the
better. The fact that liberals hate Bush for trying to pursue a
liberal agenda in Iraq is irrational.

-Max

-- 
"The presentation or 'gift' of the Holy Ghost simply confers upon a
man the right to receive at any time, when he is worthy of it and
desires it, the power and light of truth of the Holy Ghost, although
he may often be left to his own spirit and judgment." --Joseph F.
Smith (manual, p. 69)

Be pretty if you are,
Be witty if you can,
But be cheerful if it kills you.