[Dragaera] Vlad's passivity--getting long

[Jerry Friedman]

--- On Thu, 10/23/08, Alexx Kay <alexx at panix.com> wrote:
> Jerry Friedman:
> > --- On Tue, 10/21/08, Alexx Kay
> <alexx at panix.com> wrote:
> >> Jerry Friedman:
> >> > --- On Sun, 10/19/08, Philip Hart
> >> <philiph at slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> 
> > It's true we haven't seen any mass media, but
> we know
> > there are ballads, and /Taltos/ and /Issola/ seem
> > perfect for that.  There are also books.
> 
> _Taltos_ as we know it has a big climax when Vlad performs
> his spell. 
> Vlad doesn't even tell Morrolan about the details (at
> least not for a long
> time), so that leaves the ballad without much of a finish. 
> Assuming, of
> course, that Morrolan, Aliera, or Sethra even wanted to
> tell the story in
> the first place.  While M&A like to be talked about, I
> don't see either of
> them as likely to go into detail about what happened. 
> Morrolan doesn't
> brag, and Aliera didn't *do* anything worth bragging
> about.

Both can give credit.  And people--maybe even psychotic
Dragonlords--like to talk about their experiences.  In
addition, neither seems to mind that some people don't
like their associating with Vlad.  They might positively
enjoy pointing out what Vlad has done that the critics
haven't.  Not in detail, but "Yes, Vlad and I were
discussing something very like that when were in the
Paths rescuing my cousin,"--a good line for people
who sniff at their fellow guests?

> It probably
> is generally known that Morrolan went to the Paths to fetch
> Aliera back,
> but further details seem to me unlikely to be public
> knowledge.  (Maybe
> there *is* a song, but it's largely unrelated to the
> truth :-)

I don't see why it shouldn't also be widely known that
Vlad (or an Jhereg Easterner who carries a jhereg on his
shoulder) went with Morrolan and had a crucial role, 

> As for _Issola_, I maintain that those events remain
> secret, but Michael
> Wojcik has already detailed my reasons, so I won't
> repeat them.
> 
> >> > but still, I'd expect something.  Vlad
> meets Ric
> >> > in /Dzur/: "Greetings, my lord Count!  I
> hear
> >> > you've saved the Empire twice since I saw
> you
> >> > last!"
> >>
> >> Ric might conceivably have heard that Vlad got
> awarded an
> >> Imperial Title.
> >> But I'm pretty sure the ceremony didn't
> specify
> >> what, precisely, he got it *for* :-)
> >
> > Well, not precisely, but as you say, people probably
> > know it had to do with ending the war.
> 
> What I actually said was "Those who follow politics
> might infer that it
> had something to do with the Greenaere war.  Then again,
> they might
> believe it had something to do with suppressing the riots
> in South
> Adrilankha (an issue which Vlad was at least somewhat known
> to be involved
> in)."  All of which are guesses, and rely upon a
> knowledge of (and
> interest in) fairly high-level politics.  We don't know
> that Ric has such
> knowledge/interest (though, to be fair, we don't know
> that he *doesn't*).

Actually, some people don't have to guess.  What the
seneschal proclaims when Vlad is ennobled includes,
"And by his own actions, at risk of his life..."
and, "...which would certainly have cost the lives of
thousands of Imperial citizens..."  The ellipses
must contain a mention of the war.

We can only speculate on how closely you have to
follow politics to know this, but I'd think that
when a Jhereg Easterner, already at least vaguely
known to many Easterners, gets an Imperial Title for
ending a war that everyone was worried about
(especially potential conscripts), true and false
rumors are going to fly.

> Regardless of what he knows or guesses, I'm willing to
> bet, just based on
> Vlad's character, that the two of them never discuss
> Vlad's business
> activities.  Even if Ric knows, he'd probably regard it
> as impolite to bring up.

But Ric has no reason to associate Vlad's title with
his business activities.  /That/ part is still
secret.
...

> > But there's plenty of time after that for them to
> > warn him.
[that Loraan isn't dead, exactly, and may want revenge]
 
> What's to warn?  By the standards of polite Dragaeran
> society, the problem
> is over and done with.  (Maybe.  I am inferring from few
> examples.  But
> more than the traditional 'one', at least!)

Sorry, what are the examples?

> If Vlad hadn't essentially
> fallen into Loraan's hands in _Athyra_, I doubt that L
> would ever have moved against him.

Maybe, but that's a big chance for Vlad's friends to
take.

> > Also, Vlad becomes Morrolan's security consultant,
> > and I'd think Loraan's continued existence
> would be a
> > matter of security concern to Morrolan and Fentor.
> 
> Again, by normal standards, there is nothing to worry
> about.  Nobody
> expects Loraan to attack Castle Black without there being
> plenty of warning.

Why?  Loraan might well be able to get into Castle
Black.  Then he might be angry enough to do something
dishonorable.  (We don't know much about Athyras' ideas
of honor.  Dragons' ideas seem flexible enough.)  Or
anyone might think it's enough warning to walk up to
Morrolan and say, "Hello.  My name is Loraan.  You
killed me.  Prepare to die."

> Yes, Morrolan did attack Loraan's home.  But only after
> long and
> acrimonious negotiations had broken down.  And possibly
> (though this is
> complete fabulation on my part) after a dialogue exchange
> along the lines
> of "If you continue to be obstinate in your refusal to
> sell the item, then
> I may be forced to simply take it!" "If you think
> you are *capable* of
> taking it, be my guest!"  Hm, I like this a lot; it
> might actually give
> Morrolan legal cover for his actions.

It seems completely in character.  However, I'm not
sure legal cover is needed.  I suspect that as people
have been saying about Great Weapons, Morrolan is
pretty much above the law.

Jerry Friedman