[Dragaera] Iorich ***SPOILERS****

[Jon%20Lincicum]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Philip Hart" <philiph at slac.stanford.edu> 
To: "SKZB List" <dragaera at dragaera.info> 
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 4:57:52 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific 
Subject: Re: [Dragaera] Iorich ***SPOILERS**** 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010, Alexx Kay wrote: 
>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 0 
>>>>>>>>> 1 
>>>>>>>>> 2 
>>>>>>>>> 3 
>>>>>>>>> 4 
>>>>>>>>> 5 
>>>>>>>>> 6 
>>>>>>>>> 7 
>>>>>>>>> 8 
>>>>>>>>> 9 
>>>>>>>>> 10 
>>>>>>>>> 11 
>>>>>>>>> 12 
>>>>>>>>> 13 
>>>>>>>>> 14 
>>>>>>>>> 15 
>>>>>>>>> 16 
>>>>>>>>> 17 
>> 
>> [snip] 
>> 
>> This may be part of the reason why Vlad has had so little trouble 
>> avoiding overt assassination attempts in /Iorich/ and /Dzur/. 
> 
>I don't follow which side you're arguing on here. If the organization is 
>falling behind maybe they should cut their losses, no? 

Not certain I'm really arguing anything, just ruminating on the possibilities. 

>> Well, the idea of the Mellar situation was they needed (or at least 
>> preferred) that he be dead before the crime was even discovered. The 
>> Demon may well have overstated the importance of this deadline to Vlad 
>> in order to avoid the naturally undesirable consequences of starting 
>> another Dragon-Jhereg war. 
> 
>Hmm, if it wasn't so important to get him immediately they could have 
>asked Mario, who would have (presumably) left no trace. 

Well, they may well have asked Mario had Vlad failed. I think it likely this was something they would have pursued if things had progressed to that point. 

Then again, from what we've seen of Mario since then, it's quite likely he wouldn't have taken the job if it involved violating the sanctity of Castle Black, regardless of any time limit. Regardless of whatever pressure Aliera might have put on him. He wouldn't have wanted to endanger her (or himself) by entangling their Houses in a war, no matter how important The Demon (or Curinthe) thought it was. 

I can't imagine what Mario thought of Vlad's solution to the problem--endangering the soul of his lover in order to spare the Jhereg Council embarassment? 


>>>> What makes you think they haven't continued making example of the "next 
>>>> guys" in the iterim? 
>>> 
>>> The unlikelihood that anyone would be dumb enough to go up against the 
>>> organization based on the example of a witchcraft-and-GW wielding 
>>> invisible-to-sorcery intimate friend of the most powerful people in the 
>>> world and chosen tool of the gods. 
>> 
>> This hasn't stopped Kragar (and his troops) from helping Vlad. One might 
>> say that this is the beginning of a rebellion within the Jhereg. 
> 
>Maybe this means that taking out the top guys would leave people 
>reasonable enough to reach an accord with. 

If the replacements are likely to *be* any more reasonable, then maybe this is worth considering. But I don't see how he could count on this being the case. 

Vlad did mention he has some ideas for how he might be able to square things with the Jhereg. This very well could be one of them. 


>> I'm not really going to disagree that this might in all actuality be 
>> sufficient, but I'm not the one you'd need to convince. Tell that to the 
>> Jhereg Council. 
> 
>Why do I have to explain their manifest interest to them? 

My point; while I don't think what you're saying is unreasonable, it doesn't seem like the Jhereg are that interested in being reasonable regarding Vlad. 

>>> I don't see anyone in the Jhereg amassing the skills and strengths to 
>>> put up 1/17th of the struggle Vlad has. 
>> 
>> Not individually. But if "every two-bit operator" starts trying, they 
>> won't have the resources to stop them all. 
> 
>They take out 17 two-bit operators - can't be that expensive, since 
>they're two-bit - then they take out 17^2 if necessary. The lesson is 
>going to sink in. If the house really believes these rules are important 
>it won't be hard to muster the workers. 

It still hurts the bottom line in any case. Shining Vlad is a long-term investment to prevent centuries of nickel-and-dime dealing with petty thieves who think they can match the "legend of Vlad Taltos; the one guy who got away with it". 


>> Well, we don't know much about Mario's actual position within the 
>> Organization (if any). Does he control territory? And is Kragar's 
>> territory and organization large enough to hold a spot on the Council, 
>> even if one were handed to him on a silver platter? 
> 
>I'm willing to bet "no" and "no for traditional power, yes for his info 
>network". 

Well, I'm primarily thinking of manpower. If Kragar controls roughly the area Vlad did (4-5 square blocks of Adrilankha) and has maybe 20-30 employees, it doesn't seem like he has enough muscle to match up with people who control whole quarters of the city, and likely number hundreds or thousands of subordinates. 

I don't see how his information network is going to help with that aspect of it. Unless you think he can blackmail that many Jhereg enforcers into letting him be in charge. 


>> In order to install one's friends at the top of the council, one must 
>> cultivate powerful friends within the Organization. Again, difficult 
>> when most of them want you dead. 
> 
>But those who get along just get dead. This happens often enough and 
>the house will evolve. 
> 
>I guess an argument I would buy against this idea is that Vlad and friends 
>would be averse to the amount of bloodshed that would be required. On the 
>other hand he was ready to take out a roomful of LHs not so long ago if 
>forced to. 
> 
>And maybe I underestimate the strength of the council members. 

As you say. Vlad doesn't seem that eager to initiate a bloodbath to solve his problems. And I certainly can't imagine Morrolan or Aliera (or Cawti) being in favor of this kind of solution. 

Majikjon