[Dragaera] comment on Dzurs (and Lyorn)

[Philip Hart]

On Sun, 12 Jan 2014, Joshua Kronengold wrote:

> Philip Hart <philiph at slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
>> The Cycle drawing at the front of _Tiassa_ has House Dzur representing
>> heroism and honor.  The Lyorn are tradition and duty.  Judging from the
>>
>> Paarfiad, I would tend to think that the Lyorn are more concerned with
>> honor - Aerich, I would have said, cares more about honor and
>> principles
>> than Tazendra (e.g. in being unwilling to break bread with criminals).
>
> Honor is personal.  Aerich being unwilling to break bread with criminals 
> is a typical law and order Lyorn position.
>
> There's nothing dishonorable about breaking bread with criminals.

I don't know if this is a popular opinion.  Recall that Piro and friends 
are robbing innocent folk at sword point, laughing at their terror, and 
murdering them if they resist.  It's curious to me that the Text doesn't 
remark more on it.

But Aerich is perfectly willing to be with criminals, and even to see 
criminal behavior engaged in, without taking the least action (such as 
informing the authorities) against it.  He doesn't so much represent 
law and order, I think, but (as more or less expressed in Ch. 77 of 
the Pirodyssey, "Father and Son", where there are several extended 
discussions of honor) an innate natural honor deeper than the societal 
(at least from the view of that society - we don't approve of all of 
Aerich's views, for good reasons).  For Aerich honor and the law 
are naturally in harmony (the sort of axiom that fiction likes to 
explode, and I suppose Paarfi gestures at that with his relationship 
with Tazendra).

>> The Dzur are interested in standing alone just for the sake of being
>> different - I would have said "heroism and iconoclasm".  Thus for
>> example
>> the number of Dzur hybrids in the Texts, and the suggestion somewhere
>> that Dzur might defend Tecklas or Easterners (in _Dragon_?) - certainly
>>
>> Tazendra taking Mika as servant is an intentionally iconoclastic
>> action.
>
> That's a Glory action, actually, the Dzur would take the side of the Teckla or Easterner because their Honor demands not taking the advantaged side, and Glory is to be gained by joining the weaker one.

It's a heroic and normal Dzur act for Tazendra to defend Mika.  I was 
referring though to her taking him as a lackey despite it being out of 
fashion.  Having rechecked the Text I see that she does so more in spite 
of that to spite fashion, so this isn't clear evidence for my claim above.

And note here that Aerich is willing to watch some riff-raff beat up a 
Teckla simply due to class standing.


> Lyorn vary, but most care about tradition, continuance, and the law.

I think this doesn't quite reflect the Texts' view, or anyway that of 
Paarfi.  For example, in Ch. 83 of the work referred to above we find 
Zerika calling House Lyorn "the House to which others look for moral 
guidance and political leadership".  On pg. 75 of _TPG_ Aerich "was 
accorded the honor with which everyone looks upon a Lyorn.  The second 
sentence he says to Khaavren concerns his sword point, his honor, which 
"must never touch the ground".

The various nobles in the Paarfiad have their own personal honor, for 
which they are willing to fight to the death, but for the Lyorn it's 
more a feature of their House than having been raised in the nobility.


>
>> (Aside, the conversation I referred to above is hard to understand
>> given
>> that Paarfi knows that Sethra is a Dzur in some sense.)
>
> Sethra is a Unique, and nor even a Dragaeran, certainly not a Hawk, would try to define her by her supposed house.

Paarfi notes her Dzur eyes and ears, the Dzur claw on her device, when he 
introduces her.  I think he knows she understands Dzur, entirely apart 
from presumably having known thousands of them.  Ok, on brief reflection 
I read this as Paarfi writing Sethra (or v.v., except would she really 
write _Tiassa_ too?) teasing Tazendra a little for not picking up on the 
obvious, which I should have picked up immediately, but getting back into 
his way of expressing things can take a little while.