[Dragaera] Liberals

[Jerry Friedman via Dragaera]

> From: Scott Schult 
>> As opposed to the Cycle being a result of the stability?  I suspect they
>work
>> together to some extent, but I like the idea that the stability might have
>> come first.
>> 
>> Jerry Friedman

>When Vlad visits the Halls of Judgement in _Taltos_, he introduces The Cycle
>(meaning the big stone wheel) by explaining to the reader that it is
>considered to be *THE* Cycle in every meaningful way. To a Dragaeran,
>there's no difference between speaking about the physical manifestation of
>The Cycle in the Halls of Judgement and talking about the socio-economic
>manifestation of the Cycle in the progression of Houses passing the Orb from
>one to another. So much so, that there is a belief that if a person had the
>strength and will  to physically take hold of the stone wheel and move it,
>that the Empirical Cycle would immediately turn as well.
>
>Remember that to most educated Dragaerans, the Gods are more like supermen
>than like awe-inspiring omnipotent forces. There is little reason for belief
>in superstitious folderol when the proper study of sorcery and communication
>with the Lords of Judgement themselves can tell you exactly what makes those
>entities "divine" and even how to go about making oneself "divine". If we
>assume that educated Dragaerans believe the things that Vlad is telling us
>that they believe, then there's little reason to doubt that the physical
>Cycle in the Halls of Judgement is, indeed, the "master" of the
>socio-economic Cycle that drives events in the Empire.

If the stone Cycle is the master, how does it decide when to turn?  Is it
monitoring events in the Empire?  If so, then maybe the events are the master.
If not, then how?

As far as I can tell, everything Vlad says in /Taltos/ is consistent with
the idea that the stone Cycle and the socio-economico-political one are
inextricably linked, as you say, but not necessarily that the stone one
controls the political one.  Maybe the stone one is like the rear wheel of a
bike and the political one is like the pedals.  If you turn the wheel, the
pedals turn, but normally the process is the other way around.

Or maybe there's no difference (as you say), and the consequence is there's
no point in talking about master and slave.

I'll add that in Ch. 33 of FHYA, the Orb "interrogated the Cycle and searched,

in its own way, for the new Emperor".  However, I don't think it settles anything
about "drive and driven" (to quote John Crowley, who Steven lists among his
favorites in his interview with Paarfi).  Maybe the Orb checks whether the Cycle
has decided to turn, or maybe it uses the stone Cycle as the most convenient
reflection of events.

>This shouldn't be that surprising, given that Verra (I think) has referred
>to the Empire itself as a metaphysical entity that is somehow part of the
>defense against incursions by the Jenoine. The Lords of Judgement have a
>vested interest in keeping the Empire running according to the Cycle. 

If they can affect it.  The Lyorn Records say the Cycle is said to predate
the Jenoine.  If it really does, one way to understand that remarkable idea
is that the Cycle comes from ineluctable historical forces.


Jerry Friedman