[Dragaera] Dragaera Digest, Vol 93, Issue 5

Thu Nov 6 13:27:20 PST 2014

I think we shouldn't ignore the fact that hamstringing a yendi is likely to
just piss him off.  1) Yendis don't have hamstrings, and 2) it doesn't
affect the two primary sources of the yendi's danger--its intellect and its
bite.  And it would, presumably, put you within the danger zone for both of
them.

Hamstringing a yendi.  No future in it.

Regards,

Jon Carey, B.A.(Hon), CHRP

On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 4:07 PM, via Dragaera <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: I reviewed Hawk. :-/ (Mark Landin via Dragaera)
>    2. Re: I reviewed Hawk. :-/ (Philip Hart via Dragaera)
>    3. Re: I reviewed Hawk. :-/ (Jon Lincicum via Dragaera)
>    4. Re: I reviewed Hawk. :-/ (Philip Hart via Dragaera)
>    5. Re: I reviewed Hawk. :-/ (Jon Lincicum via Dragaera)
>    6. Re: I reviewed Hawk. :-/ (Mark Landin via Dragaera)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:12:24 -0600
> From: Mark Landin via Dragaera <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> To: Jon Lincicum <lincicum at comcast.net>
> Cc: "Dragaera at lists.dragaera.info" <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> Subject: Re: [Dragaera] I reviewed Hawk. :-/
> Message-ID:
>         <CALWEuWxTaugcw-DVqTq7GZ57tnDNgoqB23P1QQFgA=
> Waqvvc9Q at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Or maybe "hamstring the yendi" is some figure of speech that has cultural
> significance, but isn't immediately clear to us non-Dragareans. Maybe read
> like "Sethra was supposed to jump the shark, but pulled up at the last
> second-deliberately".
>
> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Jon Lincicum via Dragaera <
> dragaera at lists.dragaera.info> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > From: "Steve Rapaport" <steve.rapaport at gmail.com>
> > To: "Jon Lincicum" <lincicum at comcast.net>
> > Cc: dragaera at lists.dragaera.info
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 4, 2014 8:49:41 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Dragaera] I reviewed Hawk. :-/
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4 November 2014 05:21, Jon Lincicum < lincicum at comcast.net > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 11/3/2014 6:38 PM, Steve Rapaport wrote:
> >
> > <blockquote>
> >
> >
> >
> > On 3 November 2014 22:09, Jon Lincicum via Dragaera <
> > dragaera at lists.dragaera.info > wrote:
> >
> > <blockquote>
> >
> > > On Sunday, November 2, 2014 4:31 AM, Jon Lincicum via Dragaera <
> > dragaera at lists.dragaera.info > wrote:
> >
> > > > On 11/1/2014 9:04 PM, Jerry Friedman via Dragaera wrote:
> > >>  P
> > >>  D
> > >>  L
> > >>  Ti
> > >>  H
> > >>  D
> > >>  Is
> > >>  Ts
> > >>  V
> > >>  J
> > >>  Io
> > >>  C
> > >>  Y
> > >>  O
> > >>  Te
> > >>  A
> > >>  P
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Ya know, I don't agree. I think the context isn't what you remember.
> Here
> > it is, and it's Aliera speaking:
> > >
> > >"I was there, Vlad, when Kieron was backed into a corner by an ex-Dragon
> > >named Dolivar, who had been Kieron's brother before he shamed himself
> and
> > >the whole tribe. Dolivar was tortured and expelled. I share the guilt
> > there,
> > >too, as does Sethra. Sethra was supposed to hamstring the yendi, but she
> > >missed-deliberately. I saw, but I didn't say anything. Perhaps that
> makes
> > me
> > >responsible for my brother's death, later. I don't know..."
> > >
> > >I'm not really sure 'the yendi' even refers to Dolivar, but if it does,
> > it's clear that Sethra and Aliera both let him go, and it's not clear
> that
> > anyone wanted >him dead. Tortured and expelled kind of implies "not
> trying
> > to kill someone".
> >
> >
> > Thanks for looking this up. I did mis-remember a bit; however I parse
> this
> > passage differently.
> >
> > "He was tortured and expelled. Sethra was supposed to hamstring the
> > yendi..." implying, he was being banished out into the wild where the
> > beasts lurked, and Sethra was supposed to disable him so that he would be
> > easy prey to the critters; but she didn't. She let him go unharmed and
> able
> > to defend himself. And thus, Dolivar was able to survive the expulsion,
> > regroup, and form the Jhereg.
> >
> > So yeah. Sethra was expected to provide what would amount to the killing
> > blow (even if the actual death would due to the local wildlife, thus
> > freeing Keiron, Drien, Sethra, et al. from any guilt realted to directly
> > murdering a relative).
> >
> > This implication seems pretty clear to me; but hey, I wasn't there.
> >
> > --Majikjon
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dragaera mailing list
> > Dragaera at lists.dragaera.info
> > http://lists.dragaera.info/listinfo.cgi/dragaera-dragaera.info
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "He's old enough to know what's right and young enough not to choose it.
> He's strong enough to win the world and weak enough to lose it." - Neal
> Peart
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 14:21:15 -0800 (PST)
> From: Philip Hart via Dragaera <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> To: "Dragaera at lists.dragaera.info" <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> Subject: Re: [Dragaera] I reviewed Hawk. :-/
> Message-ID:
>         <
> alpine.LRH.2.00.1411051415580.30980 at ppa-philiph-l.slac.stanford.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
>
> On Wed, 5 Nov 2014, Mark Landin via Dragaera wrote:
>
> > Or maybe "hamstring the yendi" is some figure of speech that has cultural
> > significance, but isn't immediately clear to us non-Dragareans. Maybe
> read
> > like "Sethra was supposed to jump the shark, but pulled up at the last
> > second-deliberately".
>
> If it's an idiom I would naively expect it to mean, "Try to do something
> impossible" or "make a spiteful pointless gesture".  Which would make its
> use in this context especially ironic.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:19:56 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Jon Lincicum via Dragaera <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> To: Philip Hart <philiph at slac.stanford.edu>
> Cc: "Dragaera at lists.dragaera.info" <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> Subject: Re: [Dragaera] I reviewed Hawk. :-/
> Message-ID:
>         <1130230021.3099865.1415229596043.JavaMail.zimbra at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > From: "Philip Hart via Dragaera" <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> > To: "Dragaera at lists.dragaera.info" <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 2:21:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Dragaera] I reviewed Hawk. :-/
>
> > On Wed, 5 Nov 2014, Mark Landin via Dragaera wrote:
>
> > > Or maybe "hamstring the yendi" is some figure of speech that has
> cultural
> > > significance, but isn't immediately clear to us non-Dragareans. Maybe
> read
> > > like "Sethra was supposed to jump the shark, but pulled up at the last
> > > second-deliberately".
>
> > If it's an idiom I would naively expect it to mean, "Try to do something
> > impossible" or "make a spiteful pointless gesture". ?Which would make its
> > use in this context especially ironic.
>
> ?
> Hmm. I had always just seen the presence of the word 'yendi' in that line
> as merely an epithet, and separate as a concept from the preceeding bit
> which I'd assumed was a quite literal hamstringing of Dolivar.
>
> You raise a good point, however. It would be very difficult to literally
> hamstring a yendi, given that they do not have legs. This /would/ work very
> well as a euphemisum for a very difficult or impossible task.
>
> In the context of the original quote, given this meaning, it would seem to
> me that "being ordered to do what is impossible but deliberately missing"
> could mean being ordered to kill Dolivar, or possibly to force a
> confession, but deliberately failing. This doesn't seem to change the
> meaning significantly of the part of the phrase in question.
>
> "We caught the criminal, and the warden of his prison was ordered to
> twixilcate the flapinaxitrix, but he deliberately failed, and the convict
> escaped."
>
> The meanings of the nonsense words here do not change the base fact that
> something the warden did resulted in a significant change in the convict's
> favor, ultimately sparing his life. The kinds of prisons where they torture
> you don't tend to be ones where you get released after a brief stay with
> time off for good behavior...
>
> --Majikjon
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 15:32:53 -0800 (PST)
> From: Philip Hart via Dragaera <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> To: "Dragaera at lists.dragaera.info" <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> Subject: Re: [Dragaera] I reviewed Hawk. :-/
> Message-ID:
>         <
> alpine.LRH.2.00.1411051523420.30980 at ppa-philiph-l.slac.stanford.edu>
> Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
>
>
> On Wed, 5 Nov 2014, Jon Lincicum wrote:
>
> > You raise a good point, however. It would be very difficult to literally
> > hamstring a yendi, given that they do not have legs. This /would/ work
> > very well as a euphemisum for a very difficult or impossible task.
> >
>
> > In the context of the original quote, given this meaning, it would seem
> > to me that "being ordered to do what is impossible but deliberately
> > missing" could mean being ordered to kill Dolivar, or possibly to force
> > a confession, but deliberately failing. This doesn't seem to change the
> > meaning significantly of the part of the phrase in question.
>
> It might in context be a funny way of saying, "Convince him to fly right".
> Then the context might mean, "I was asked to convince him to come to his
> senses but I actually told him I agreed with him."  Or maybe it's a cant
> phrase meaning the opposite of what one would expect.
>
> Compare "break the stick".  It must be pretty hard for an Easterner to
> absorb all of Dragaaeran idiom, and harder to translate it into English.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 16:22:45 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Jon Lincicum via Dragaera <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> To: Philip Hart <philiph at slac.stanford.edu>
> Cc: "Dragaera at lists.dragaera.info" <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> Subject: Re: [Dragaera] I reviewed Hawk. :-/
> Message-ID:
>         <1089610180.3506939.1415290965444.JavaMail.zimbra at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > From: "Philip Hart via Dragaera" <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> >
> > It might in context be a funny way of saying, "Convince him to fly
> right".
> > Then the context might mean, "I was asked to convince him to come to his
> > senses but I actually told him I agreed with him." Or maybe it's a cant
> > phrase meaning the opposite of what one would expect.
>
> Well, sure. And if he refuses to cooperate, then what? They throw him a
> fluffy kitten tea-party?
>
> --Majikjon
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 12:53:31 -0600
> From: Mark Landin via Dragaera <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> To: Jon Lincicum <lincicum at comcast.net>
> Cc: "Dragaera at lists.dragaera.info" <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> Subject: Re: [Dragaera] I reviewed Hawk. :-/
> Message-ID:
>         <CALWEuWwPDW+Myh2=
> Aj_c+Res0GqL8hpjkAumihkf4qe80P0y-g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Shut up, Jon
>
> :)
>
> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 10:22 AM, Jon Lincicum via Dragaera <
> dragaera at lists.dragaera.info> wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > > From: "Philip Hart via Dragaera" <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info>
> > >
> > > It might in context be a funny way of saying, "Convince him to fly
> > right".
> > > Then the context might mean, "I was asked to convince him to come to
> his
> > > senses but I actually told him I agreed with him." Or maybe it's a cant
> > > phrase meaning the opposite of what one would expect.
> >
> > Well, sure. And if he refuses to cooperate, then what? They throw him a
> > fluffy kitten tea-party?
> >
> > --Majikjon
> > _______________________________________________
> > Dragaera mailing list
> > Dragaera at lists.dragaera.info
> > http://lists.dragaera.info/listinfo.cgi/dragaera-dragaera.info
> >
>
>
>
> --
> "He's old enough to know what's right and young enough not to choose it.
> He's strong enough to win the world and weak enough to lose it." - Neal
> Peart
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
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> Dragaera at lists.dragaera.info
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Dragaera Digest, Vol 93, Issue 5
> ***************************************
>