[Dragaera] [Orca spoiler][500 yrs after spoiler?] A Devera thread, please?

[healing line]

Point one: which is the possible 550yrs after spoiler:
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  I see no great barrier to cross-species romance, as it is exemplified by none other than the Phoenix Empress herself. If she has offspring, the father would need to be someone else biologically, that's all.
   
  Now that I finally know who the heck Vlad Norathar is (technically a Jhereg but biologically Easterner) please do not confuse me with the issue of reincarnation as whatever species fits the plans of the gods, as seems to be Vlad's case. The gods are worshipped by all Dragaerans, whether Eastern or elfs. I don't want to count Aliera as his sister, or Verra as his mother, in this incarnation at least.
   
  Point two:   An excellent way for Aliera and Mario not to conceive in the Dragaeran Empire would be to have conceived when elsewhere, during the Interregnum, and left said offspring with Verra. A child produced of Kieron she would immediately allow to be born, to increase the pool of Dragon heirs. But with Mario, who knows? Devy's enigmatic and liminal existence for a long time in the wings of many stories,aka the 'special relationship with time', could be partly due to Aliera's prejudice against the child's Jhereg admixture, which the gods would have different views about than she who was raised as Adron's heir. Also there were extended periods where Aliera's soul was not incarnated, in a number of magical fashions, which may have interfered with carrying to term, but not actual conception. 
   
  If our esteemed author says she is Kieron's child, then she could be born at any moment or stage of maturity into the Empire proper, as was her mother born multiple times, one could say, from various of the abovementioned liminal states. And intrigue young Vlad Norathar. Fooling around does not always result in babies, thank goodness.
   
  I hope I have been sufficiently general with point two not to need spoilerspace for any particular storyline.
  helgaleena


On 10/22/06, Maximilian Wilson wrote:
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> On 10/22/06, healing line wrote:

> > Please discuss and dismiss this conclusion which
> > has overtaken my mentations regarding this elusive character:
> >
> > Devera, if she ever is actually born, is meant for a love interest of Vlad Norathar.
> >
> > And her father is Mario.
>
> Well, they're different species, and in a way Vlad Norathar is her
> cousin. (If Aliera and Vlad still count as siblings.) Then again, SKZB
> is on record saying that Devera's father is Kieron, so maybe Kieron
> and Aliera no longer count as siblings

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:58:47 -0700
From: Jon Lincicum 

Subject: Re: [Dragaera] [Orca spoiler] A Devera thread, please?
To: Davdi Silverrock 
Cc: Dragaera 
Message-ID: <453C2FE7.3010905 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Davdi Silverrock wrote:
> On 10/22/06, Maximilian Wilson wrote:
> 
>> [Orca spoilers]
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>> On 10/22/06, healing line wrote:
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>
> 
>>> Please discuss and dismiss this conclusion which
>>> has overtaken my mentations regarding this elusive character:
>>>
>>> Devera, if she ever is actually born, is meant for a love interest of Vlad Norathar.
>>>
>>> And her father is Mario.
>>> 
>> Well, they're different species, and in a way Vlad Norathar is her
>> cousin. (If Aliera and Vlad still count as siblings.) Then again, SKZB
>> is on record saying that Devera's father is Kieron, so maybe Kieron
>> and Aliera no longer count as siblings (especially if Aliera was
>> originally Kieron's brother Drien), though that would still rule out
>> Mario being the father. Of course, maybe Steve was lying and it really
>> is Mario.
>> 
>
> Devera is a full-blooded Dragon, the daughter of Aliera e'Kieron and
> Kieron the Conqueror.
> 
Well, I agree this is likely correct, but this has not actually yet been 
stated anywhere "officially" in the texts.

> While Aliera is extremely arrogant, she's not going to give birth to a
> Dragon-Jhereg crossbreed if she possibly can help it. Since she's an
> extremely competent sorceress, she can help it. QED.
> 
Seems unlikely. If she hasn't run into problems of this kind with Mario, 
it's likely she knows how to stop it from becoming a problem.

At the same time, note that Steve's hint about Kieron being the father 
has the conception taking place in the Paths of the Dead--where sorcery 
is not operative. The "She can help it" argument looses some of its 
potency if sorcery is not available to her.

> Devera is no blood relation of Vlad Norathar, because Vlad's mom is
> not Verra (I assert).
> 
We'll see. (Or maybe we won't, and Steve will just keep us guessing, but 
my money says Verra *is* in fact Vlad's real mother...Whether he ever 
learns about it or not.)

> But Devera is not going to be a love interest for VN because by the
> time she's old enough to date, VN is almost certainly going to be
> completely grey-haired, and possibly arthritic. And Devera will
> almost certainly know VN as "Uncle" while she's growing up, just like
> she calls Vlad using that familiar epithet. QED
> 

While I agree in principle with this argument, Devera is very skilled at 
moving through (or at least tinkering with) time, so this may not be the 
problem you expect it to be. At the same time, even if Devera could make 
herself old enough to date VN right when he was in his prime, what 
happens forty years later when he's over-the-hill and she's still an 
adolescent?

However, I still think it's unlikely VN and Devera will get together 
since they are a) of different species, and are also b) closely related 
to one another (huh? How does that work?!?! Shhh. It's magic.)

Majikjon

On 10/22/06, Jon Lincicum wrote:
> Davdi Silverrock wrote:

Context for newbies: It has been speculated that Vlad is actually
Verra's son. There is absolutely no textual or external evidence for
this (that is, SKZB has neither confirmed nor denied this
speculation). I presume people are just going by a few misinterpreted
phrases here and there (like Devera referring to "Uncle" Vlad), and

See also: http://dragaera.wikia.com/wiki/Speculation:Vlad_Taltos#Vlad.27s_Mother

So Jon is a pro-Vlad-is-Verra's-son, and I know that Mark Mandel,
despite his intermittent participation, is also very much in favor of
the idea. So that's two votes in favor.

I think it's all apophenia, myself, and vote absolutely not.

Anyone else want to sound off on where they stand on this particular issue?

 		
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