[Dragaera] Iorich ***SPOILERS**** First impressions

[Alexx Kay]

>
>
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010, Jon%20Lincicum wrote:
>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Philip Hart" <philiph at slac.stanford.edu>
>> To: "Dragaera" <dragaera at dragaera.info>
>> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 12:00:57 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
>> Subject: Re: [Dragaera] Iorich ***SPOILERS**** First impressions
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010, Alexx Kay wrote:
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>>>>
>>>> and a bit more spoiler space...
>>>>
>>>>

> The Lyorn must care that Vlad has the favor of the gods, since that's
> obviously necessary to return.  Anyone at all pious ditto.

For a guy with "the favor of the gods", Vlad's sure had a lot of awful
stuff happen to him.  Not that that contradicts your point.  Indeed, it is
consistent with lots of Earth mythologies.  If one god likes you, odds are
good that you will get screwed by the gods that don't like that god.

>> Stopped a war with Greenaere/Elde: How many people know that he really
>> did this? As I recall, in /Phoenix/, his title was given to him due to
>> "services rendered to The Empire". How many people know the specifics of
>> this?
>
> Everyone who's been at a party at Castle Black since then, I imagine, or
> knows anyone who has.

You really think Aliera and Morrolan are big gossipers?  About an issue
which the Empress clearly desired to suppress the details of?

>> Killed a Jenoine: Sure, he saved the world from subjugation by legendary
>> beings with the powers of the gods. Good one. Who told you that? Sethra
>> Lavode? (Point being, who is likely to believe such a wild-eyed tale? In
>> any case, the threat is over now, so what do they care?)
>
> I don't expect anyone to believe Aliera, Morrolan, et al. would lie about
> this.

I suspect that few people would be willing to give them the lie to their
face -- but I also think few politicians would automatically take what
they said at face value.

>And anyone informed should know that Vlad is of vital importance to
> the future of the state based on past performance.

"based on past performance" is not a phrase that inspires confidence in
the wise.

>Anyone not informed
> should get a visit from the Dragon heir or the warlord or ...

You seem to think that shows of force are a good way to get political
consensus.  Granted, some Earth governments have operated that way.  But
we've seen no indication that Zerika is willing to run *her* government
that way.

>> Basically, while *we* know Vlad is doing all these things (assuming he's
>> not just spinning yarns to his readers, that is), the actual public
>> account and awareness of his life is hardly the stuff of celebrity. To
>> the vast majority of the popultion, he's just some nameless Easterner
>> who is interesting only in that he actually has a title, knows some
>> powerful friends, and goes around with a jhereg on each shoulder.
>
> It only matters here, so it seems to me, what the heads of the houses
> believe, and if they are susceptible to being informed they will be.

The heads of the Houses could be made to believe that Zerika values Vlad,
sure.  But there's nothing close to objective proof that *they* should so
value him.  Remember, they haven't been reading books of his adventures
for decades :)

>>>> The Jhereg may be a hated House; but they *are* a House.
>>>
>>> Are they? Zerika has iirc explicitly said that's a legal fiction.
>>> They're certainly not a house like the Lyorn are, or even the Yendi.
>>
>> That's precisely the point. It's the kind of legal fiction that the
>> Houses are going to bend over backwards to maintain. Like the fiction
>> that all the Houses have an equal say in government.
>
> I don't see why they wouldn't instead be ready to make exception for
> actions against the Jhereg that they could argue set no precedent against
> real houses.

Some might.  I argue that many would regard it as too dangerous a
precedent.  After all, if one House can be defined as "not a real House"
in that sense, so can others.  Certainly, the representatives of House
Teckla would be especially concerned.  But any of the Houses that
traditionally have lots of middle-class merchants might plausibly worry.

>>> Seems to me the Empire gets to say, You can try to stir up riots among
>>> the Teckla, you can kill amongst yourselves, but you can't touch my
>>> agent
>>> without those responsible sharing the same fate.
>>
>> Sure. Zerika can say that. Good luck enforcing it.
>
> A gold cloak can call in anyone in the Jhereg, no?

Any *one*, sure.

>> Which Easterners and Teckla support Vlad, exactly? Of those that know
>> him, say, for example Paresh or Kelly, how well disposed to him do they
>> seem to be?
>
> You think they're poorly disposed to the guy who recently, after manning
> the barricades on their side, wrestled away control of their area from a
> bunch of criminals who were trying to frame them as terroists and gave it
> over to an activist on their side?  Compared to the Jhereg?  The folks
> who just tried again to frame them as terrorists?

The activist Teckla are a minority.  The majority regards them as nutty
idealists at best, dangerous troublemakers at worst.  If the Teckla are
even aware of Vlad's actions, they may not have the same opinion of them
that you have.  And (as far as I can tell), South Adrilankha is back to
roughly the status quo before Vlad interfered, just with a new boss in
charge.

Alexx

"According to Babylon 5, Mass Drivers have been outlawed by every
 civilized race. As someone who regularly drives around Boston, I can
 understand that."