[Dragaera] Is Kelly foolish?

[Jerry Friedman]

----- "Philip Hart" <philiph at slac.stanford.edu> wrote:

> > On Fri, 24 Sep 2010, Jon Lincicum wrote:
> > 
> > > It should be noted that Loraan did not understand the full import of
> > > what he was being asked to do (by Habil) and may not have realized
> > > that his actions were treasonous.
> > 
> > How do we know this?  And could he be that dumb?
>
> He seemed interested in asking Habil whether or not he was likely to be caught. 
>He didn't seem to want to know too many of the details. Plausible > deniability?

> He must have suspected that what he was doing was in some way dangerous or 
>illegal, but he didn't know for sure, and may not have even
> suspected that it was actual treason.

The way it looks to me, there was no doubt in Paarfi's version that Loraan knew 
he would be "betraying the Empire," which is the phrase he used.  That's what he 
meant by the "risk" a little later in the same chapter (LoCB, Ch. 59).  If Habil 
had wanted him to keep his deniability, I don't think she'd have said, "How if 
it does [involve betraying the Empire]?"  She would have changed the subject to 
the staff or just assured him that it didn't involve betraying the Empire.  I 
don't see any deniability, especially if the Orb supposedly knows what his 
intentions are.

> > Thus, no loyalty conflict would be detected by the Orb. It's also 
> > possible that he had developed other means to further his studies
> > during the Interregnum that did not rely on the Orb to allow the entry of
> > the Jenoine.

However, Habil specifically says they need a necromancer with access to the 
Orb.  Neither she nor Loraan appears to think there's any risk he'll lose 
access.

> > I was also thinking of Loraan in Vlad's time - has he repented since?
> 
> I don't recall Loraan doing anything against the Orb or throne itself in Vlad's 
>time. I do not doubt that after Kana was defeated, Loraan would
> choose to accept citizenship and a link to the Orb in order to further his own 
>studies. It's exactly what an Athyra would do, yes?

H seems to have the link the whole time.  If you lost it and wanted it back, you 
might have to explain why, which would be embarrassing for Loraan (though he 
seems to get a pass on many things).


________________________________

From: Louis Eastman almagaiz at gmail.com

(And Adron says in Chapter 33 (I think) of FHYA that he, unlike Tortaalik, would 
use the Orb in the battle.)

> Also, Kana can't use sorcery against the Empire when he's rebelling. Adron
> used at least Pre-Empire sorcery, but I can't confirm if he had regular
> sorcery or not.

There's a hint in Ch. 33: when the Orb is disabled and the Emperor is killed, 
Adron is described as feeling the same thing as Tazendra, Roila Lavode, and the 
other sorcerers around.  I'd imagine that having or not having a link to the Orb 
would make a difference to those feelings.

Yes, after the interregnum, people had to be loyal to the Empire to get a link.  
But I don't see any reason to think disloyalty breaks the link once it's made.  
No one ever mentions that possibility in FHYA, LoCB, SL, or /Phoenix/, or 
anywhere else that I remember.  And I still think Loraan's conversation with 
Habil is clear.  They both expect he can use the Orb while betraying the Empire.

> Additionally, Dragon tells us a lot about combat sorcery, that most battles
> rely on each side's sorcerers preventing the other side from using it on
> them, and throwing whatever else they can into the fray. It's also mentioned
> that generally you can expect a Dragonlord to know a few offensive spells to
> use in battle. The book explicitly says that without the other side
> stalemating each other you get devastation. I doubt any of Kelly's
> revolutionaries are sorcerously adept as a Dragon would be.

I doubt it too, but for all we know, a not especially effective sorcerous 
defense might be enough for the advantage of numbers to tell.

As things went, the insurgents were winning, and it was apparently the Orca that 
decided things--sailors let the troops land, and the Orca were the ones mowing 
people down (as far as Vlad knows).  So sorcery didn't seem to have much to do 
with it.

Jerry Friedman
> The Orb can fry anyone linked to it, according to whomever (I think Kragar?)
> was telling Vlad anyone can contact the Empress, but she might fry your
> brain if it's trivial. Additionally the Emperor can use it the Orb itself as
> a weapon, according to Vonnith in Orca at least (who is shocked at the
> notion of the Empress using it, it hasn't been done since the Seventh Jhereg
> apparently).