[Dragaera] Tiassa [nothing but spoilers]

[Jeffrey Kiok]

On Apr 5, 2011, at 8:13 AM, Louis Eastman <almagaiz at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Apr 3, 2011 at 11:16 AM, Alexx Kay <alexx at panix.com> wrote:
> 
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>>> Some random number of random comments: another strong Text, if more a
>>> story cycle than a novel.
>> 
>> Some random number of comments on the comments :-)
>> 
>>> I think the early Paarfiad is great, but I like everything in the Vladiad
>>> far more than the Piroiad (and now I have a simple explanation - he
>>> didn't have the tiassa for the latter volumes),
>> 
>> Huh, that interpretation had not occurred to me.  It seems, based on a
>> simple reading, that Paarfi had possession of the ST for about 350 years.
>> We don't now exactly how long he took to write the five volumes we have,
>> but that period encompasses at least 200 years, and probably longer
> 
> 
>>> Yeah, so it's totally clear Sethra's not Paarfi,
>> 
>> Unpack?  I didn't see anything in the text that made that clear.
>> 
> 
> He means it's unlikely Sethra could hide it when Devera is talking to
> Paarfi.
> 
>> 
>>> the Orb location stuff
>>> was another (because why not kill Kana that way),
>> 
>> Mmmmmaybe.  There seems to have been a non-zero number of successful
>> Imperial coups in the past, so there must be *some* extremely strong
>> mechanism that prevents the sitting Emperor from directly killing a
>> Pretender.
>> 
> 
> Five bucks on it's because Kana was a Dragon and revolts are how Dragons are
> supposed to take the Orb.
> 
>> 
>>> and I guess we've argued
>>> about how Vlad would trust anyone with his deepest secrets (we didn't
>>> think of trinkets, probably).
>> 
>> The trinkets were previously mentioned on p.15 of _Dragon_.
>> 
>>> (I've been wondering for a while how Piro is still the Viscount - I would
>>> think that House Tiassa would refuse to allow him to retain the title.)
>> 
>> We don't know much about either the specifics of that title, or about
>> House Tiassa politics.  It may be that the title has requirements that
>> only Piro fills (e.g. "Must be a child of the Count/ess of Whitecrest").
>> And/or, the House leadership doesn't want to antagonize Daro and Khaavren,
>> who are two of their most prominent and powerful members.
>> 
>> 
> Khaavren sees the Empress on a regular basis. He's the Captain of the
> Phoenix Guards, and the leader of the STG. No chance they'll mess with him.
> 
> 
>>> I
>>> don't understand "turn my bait".
>> 
>> Maybe Brust didn't either, and just gave us a literal translation of the
>> cant idiom :-)
>> 
>>> Does Vlad kill H'noc for betraying him (haven't we seen him keep his word
>>> in some similar situation - I'm not recalling off-hand) or for treating
>>> Neritha viciously?
>> 
>> I doubt that the Neritha thing entered into it; the Vlad of this period
>> was pretty vicious himself.  On the other hand, he tends to take betrayal
>> very personally, and making an example out of H'noc might help discourage
>> others.
>> 
>>> So Pel is still PM.  I'm a bit surprised - in discussing _Iorich_ here I
>>> said I didn't think he would have let things get so out of hand there
>> (and
>>> in _Orca_ and even _Teckla_/_Phoenix_
>> 
>> Pel is skilled, but he's far from omnipotent or even omniscient.  We don't
>> know much of what he's been doing, or what other crises he's been
>> averting.  Well, we have a small inference from the fact that (so far as
>> we know) there still hasn't been a massive economic meltdown due to the
>> events of _Orca_.
>> 
>>> - oh, no mention of the first time
>>> we and I guess Vlad saw Khaavren?).
>> 
>> There's a good chance that Vlad first saw Khaavren either during an
>> Imperial arrest early in his career (not yet fully documented), or at
>> Morrolan's party.
>> 
> 
> Khaavren is well known anyway, since he has his 'history' (which may not
> have been published yet, I dunno) and he's married to one of the big
> authorities in the area.
> 
>> 
>>> I found the "Jhereg fake Jenoine invasion to get Vlad" idea hard to
>>> believe
>> 
>> It was certainly a risky maneuver, but it didn't strike me as completely
>> implausible.  Perhaps Dathaani, while researching Vlad's history to try
>> and figure out an angle to get to him, found out about the Silver Tiassa,
>> and managed to get a true (or at least partial) account of its history and
>> properties (we know he knew enough to be aware that Mafenyi had made it).
>> Further speculating, perhaps Dathaani stole it *before* coming up with his
>> subsequent plan, and possession of it gave him sufficient inspiration to
>> come up with the rest of the plot.
>> 
>>> Zerika could have just said to the Jhereg Council, "You've got a rogue
>>> guy playing Jenoine, clean up this mess or I'll have the five of you
>>> stacked up on a star to save the executioner trouble, and the top guy
>>> goes on bottom".
>> 
>> People on this list keep over-estimating the amount of raw power Zerika
>> can exert against the Jhereg (or any large political bloc).  She's been
>> quite clear, ever since way back in _Phoenix_, that she is constrained by
>> lots of political factors.  And at the period when this plot takes place
>> (post-_Orca_), the Jhereg have a substantial threat hanging over her head,
>> that would get used if she took any large-scale action against their
>> House.
>> 
>>> I quite liked the Cawti/Daro scenes.  I have to wonder if Daro will be
>>> moved to learn a bit more than nothing (maybe that's unfair, but I'm with
>>> Cawti here) about what's going on in the parts of the city where she
>>> doesn't spend much time.  I'm a little surprised actually that she is
>>> apparently so unfamiliar with such a large group of inhabitants of her
>>> county (and presumably Teckla issues as well), given the very recent
>>> upsets -
>> 
>> Such ignorance is sad, but not really surprising.  The ruling classes
>> rarely know much about the peasantry.  While Daro has shown herself to
>> possess many admirable qualities, class-consciousness has never been one
>> of them.
>> 
>>> and also Cawti herself has been at a lot of Morrolan's parties
>>> not to mention being best friends with the Heir, which would one might
>>> think make her known to Whitecrest.
>> 
>> It's true that they *might* have met, but there's no necessity that they
>> did.  Cawti went to Morrolan's party at least a few times when she and
>> Vlad were together -- but there's no reason to think that she's been back
>> since she went revolutionary.
>> 
>>> The stuff about the Warlock was very interesting.  He and Vlad have a
>>> whole lot to talk about, I wonder why they haven't.
>> 
>> Vlad doesn't hang out at court much.  There's no obvious reason why the
>> Warlock would want to approach him.
>> 
> 
> I did find it interesting that Cawti knows so much about the Warlock. Maybe
> he taught her?
> 
>> 
>>> I was confused about Vlad losing Lady Teldra - somehow I would have
>>> thought that wouldn't happen.  I'm a bit surprised she didn't kill all
>>> the ones she wounded - did I miss a clue showing him using plain steel?
>>> (Does he get healed midfight if he's holding her?) Obviously one would
>>> guess she'd be less likely to eat the souls of Issolas.
>> 
>> Was Vlad fighting with Lady Teldra?  He knew that he was facing Sara's
>> family, and he clearly wanted Sara to think better of him.  One might
>> understand him being reluctant to destroy the souls of her relatives.
>> 
>> 
> Probably not. When he draws his weapon in the tavern, Khaavren doesn't note
> it's a GW or even Morganti. Or rather, Paarfi doesn't note it.
> 
> 
>>> I wonder if "Issola bard" in Athyra is now a bit of a crack.
>> 
>> Probably a bit, but not a major one.  I suspect that *most* Issola bards
>> are relatively low on the (Issola) social scale.  Younger children of
>> impoverished families, or something of the sort.
>> 
>> 
>> Alexx
>> 
>> You can't teach people to be lazy.  Either they have it or they don't.
>>  [Seen on a Nancy Button, www.nancybuttons.com]
>> 
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>> 


Just a quick comment re: Vlad meeting Khaavren for the first time. I recall that Vlad recognizes Khaavren during some of the riots in Teckla. 

-Jeff





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