[Dragaera] HAWK (Spoilers)

[Jerry Friedman via Dragaera]

> On Thursday, October 23, 2014 4:31 AM, James via Dragaera <dragaera at lists.dragaera.info> wrote:

> > Also, my apologies to Jerry, having sent this to him instead of to the list 
> proper. (Mea Culpa)

Problema non est, or something.

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> My responses at **
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>>  > Things I don't get about /Hawk/:> > Vlad forgot to tell 
> Khaavren to start proceedings if he's held captive. The Council could hold 
> him in some basement and make him write Khaavren periodic letters saying 
> he's having a wonderful time. He also forgot to leave his enemy a way of 
> escape. He's likely (though not certain) to die of old age while the Council 
> members are still alive, and if that time approaches, they'll have no 
> incentive to let him die naturally instead of killing him Morganti. By the way, 
> there could be an amusing plot where the Jhereg try to use whatever they can to 
> keep Vlad from doing anything risky.
> **Pretty hard to make Vlad do that, imo.

That might be the amusing part.

> And yes, I think the threat of 
> advancing his age might figure in a later plot.

> > Vlad says in Chapter 16 
> that if the bad guys had tried to stop his heart and attack him with the knife 
> at the same time, he'd have had problems. So why didn't they? 
> Specifically, stop his heart or maybe better his breathing, not to kill him, but 
> to make him too weak to block the knife.

**Just because he knows that doesn't mean that they realize it.

They're supposed to be professionals.  I suppose they might never have
paralyzed somebody but not been able to kill them, but you'd think they'd
be thinking, "What else can I do to this guy?"

**> They haven't figured out how to fix 
> his location and then teleport several tons worth of a boulder right on top of 
> his head, either.

That wouldn't be Morganti.

> What are the three Council members guilty of? They 
> haven't done anything except receive psychic messages to watch Vlad listen 
> in on them. They certainly haven't done anything for gain or anything that 
> puts Imperial security at risk (yet).

**Knowledge of the technique is the 
> "at risk" part, but they have (unstated but presumed) obtained the 
> technique to profit from it in some way. Technically, Vlad might be considered 
> guilty of this as well, except for two things - he "pre-confessed" to 
> Khaavren, which presumably counts as trying to preserve Imperial Security,

But the fact is that the technique is now known--to criminals even--only
because of him.

**> and 
> he received no benefit, explicitly because they betrayed him (which he counted 
> on). The knowledge of the technique puts Imperial security at risk, but they 
> obtain it for the understood purpose of making a profit, not for preserving 
> Imperial Security  (being who they are, the un-official but factually known 
> rulers of the Organization).

>>  How does the Council's situation here differ from the one in /Jhereg/? 
> There, the Council was willing to start a "war" that would have gotten 
> a lot of them killed rather than let Mellar live a few more /days/. Here, 
> they're willing to let Vlad live indefinitely rather than /risk/ that the 
> Justicers will lash three of them and confiscate a lot of money.

**The key 
> is that in the wording of the statute, it authorizes the further prosecution of 
> their families and other associates, essentially an authorized fishing 
> expedition to take out any and every person the authorities find at all 
> connected to the three bosses- and the fishing expedition is authorized to 
> repeat itself on those associates. It's not just the three of them (plus 
> bodyguards, sorcerers, etc.), it's their families, their second in commands, 
> basically, the whole Organization.

How far it goes is not clear.  Members of the Left Hand are willing to take
the risk, even though a Left Hand sorceress studied the technique and thus seems
to be as guilty as anyone else.

And is that fishing expedition really worse than a war with the Dragon, given
the two Houses' positions in the Cycle?  Or is Joshua Kronengold right that
Vlad's offense is a lot less than Mellar's and he's given them the eavesdropping
technique as atonement?

> The House itself isn't at risk, so it 
> wouldn't necessarily be an internal matter of a Great House, it's the 
> quashing of a criminal gang who threatens the Empire itself.

[I'm not going to repeat what I said about what evidence Khaavren has.]

> Please note, these are just my opinions, drawn from my understanding of what I 
> have read- subject to authoritative correction from the experts.;)
> Jas.

I'm glad to get corrections too.  There are certainly people here who know the
books better than I do, but I don't think anyone beside Steven is qualified to
give an authoritative opinion.

Jerry Friedman